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Post by Admin on Apr 26, 2016 9:48:12 GMT
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 9:50:39 GMT
So basically the Hillsborough Inquest is required to deliver a verdict of Unlawful Killing, place 100% of the blame with the Police and fully absolve the thousands of pissed up, ticketless dickheads that follow Liverpool everywhere even to this day. Cos if it doesn't then we'll go again, and we'll have as many inquests as it takes until they get the verdict they want. My issue here is the attempt to treat Liverpool fans as one - that the victims and the scallys without tickets are one group. They are not, they are two distinct groups of people, one wholly innocent and victims of circumstance, the other thoughtless and selfish but, in fairness, probably unable to foresee the carnage they could precipitate. They come to Villa Park without tickets every year (though not next year, admittedly ?) - they were even at it in Istanbul. Why? Because they've never taken responsibility for their part that day, they've been let off the hook because mob justice demands that a whole city will rebel if we do not clear their name. So they're still doing it. The Police will take the rap, and their conduct at a senior level was criminally inhumane. But this is mob justice, and the mob will get what they want because everyone else just wants an end to it. And justice shouldn't work like that.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 10:46:53 GMT
i'll await the abuse
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Post by Jess on Apr 26, 2016 11:39:02 GMT
Regardless if you are drunk or not, whether you are at a football match or a concert, the police are there to protect the public. This inquest has taken 2 years. It's been thorough. I don't understand how anyone can still continue to blame fans, when an independent inquest has found that a catalogue of reasons lead to all those deaths that day. The following link is the questions asked. Please read it. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/26/14-questions-the-hillsborough-jury-must-answerThis isn't about whether you like or dislike Liverpool and it's supporters. It's about a mass cover up of real events by the establishment that should be protecting the public. That alone is a disgrace. People forget that 38 Spurs fans were injured in the Leppings Lane stand in 1981, in a Semi Final game vs Wolves. The warning was there then, and nothing was done. These deaths would have been avoided if correct safety measures were put in place. If fans turn up without tickets now, what happens? No one dies. That's what! I just don't understand how this is still an argument when the evidence is published for all to see.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 13:01:40 GMT
I'm not totally blaming the fans. Its 50/50. If 20,000 supporters travel without tickets, guess what? theres going to be some sort of disaster. Police opening the gates just fuelled the disaster.
people also forget the disaters that happened at Bolton (yes , Bolton) and Bradford.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 13:03:04 GMT
Liverpool supporters imo have to take some sort of blame as well as the police.
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Post by Jess on Apr 26, 2016 13:56:55 GMT
Based on what evidence? There is none. If 20,000 people turn up without tickets, why is a disaster guaranteed? If they prevent entry, no crush happens. It really is that simple. Why do Forest fans never blame drunken Liverpool fans? It's amazing how fans who were not there seem to have such concrete knowledge and opinions of so called facts.
But what does an independent jury pouring over evidence for 2 years know.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 14:12:20 GMT
Jess have you never seen a layout of some of the old stadiums? A crush can happen before they are even given entry!
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 14:13:05 GMT
So apparently thousands of fans without tickets (fact) attempting to access a stadium already full does not cause trouble at turnstiles?
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 14:16:18 GMT
effected areas (in red) . People were actually getting crushed outside too. Attachments:
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Post by Jess on Apr 26, 2016 14:31:50 GMT
Yes, I have and it was all part of the evidence in the inquiry. Read the link I posted earlier. It has every question and every answer from the jury. They clearly state that the fans were unlawfully killed due to many failings. The layout and safety installed at Hillsborough was part of the reason for their deaths. There were warnings years before about how dangerous this stand was and it was ignored by Sheffield Wednesday. Improvements and amendments were not made down to money and that cost people their lives.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 14:54:32 GMT
to me it dont matter what the jury have asked and what they have come up with. Travelling without tickets its always going to cause some sort of trouble. If the fans that didn't have tickets didn't travel do you think this disaster would have happened. Its not just the police that can take blame for it. But that dosent make them innocent. The supporters also should take some of the blame along with the club (Sheffield Wednesday) That's just my opinion on it. I might be completley wrong but my views on it wont change. So we will just have to agree to disagree
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Post by Jess on Apr 26, 2016 15:01:49 GMT
I'm not sure how you can discount the longest inquiry in British legal history, but there you go. That's up to you.
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Post by barney797 on Apr 26, 2016 15:13:21 GMT
Cant wait for the inquest into heysel
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